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    Wrong entry in LEO?

    beef-witted - schwerfällig

    9­ Replies
    Wrong entry

    beef-witted - schwerfällig

    Correction

    beef-witted

    dated -

    schwerfällig


    Examples/ definitions with source references
    Comment
    I was surprised to find beef-witted as a suggested translation of schwerfällig. I've never seen the English term and searching online dictionaries (OALD, CALD, Meriam-Webster's, AHD) gave no hits.

    Further searching shows that it might have been listed in the 1913 Webster's http://dictionary.babylon.com/beef-witted

    Answers.com suggests it's from Shakespeare: http://www.answers.com/topic/beef-witted

    From Troilus and Cressida, Act II, Scene I, apparently. "Ther. The plague of Greece upon thee, thou mongrel beef-witted lord!"

    http://www.bartleby.com/70/3521.html

    While it certainly seems like a useful insult (and where better to find them than Shakespeare), I think it could best be described as dated, and perhaps marking it as so would be helpful. Otherwise someone searching for a completely normal translation of schwerfällig might think beef-witted is the best choice.
    Author Amy-MiMi (236989) 26 Apr 09, 01:23
    Ergebnisse aus dem Wörterbuch
    beef-witted  adj.   rareschwerfällig   - geistig
    Ergebnisse aus dem Forum
    beef-witted - schwerfällig
    beef-witted gudgeon
    out-witted
    beef
    corned beef
    beef jerky
    corned beef
    Comment
    Agreed, I've never heard of it, and if it only appears in Shakespeare, it's not a translation for anything.
    #1AuthorBenson26 Apr 09, 07:19
    Comment
    I vaguely recall having run across it in Georgette Heyer, lo these many years ago, but that's also anything but modern usage (though a century or two later than Shakespeare).
    #2Authorhm -- us (236141) 26 Apr 09, 08:51
    Comment
    I guess I didn't pay enough attention in English class when we were reading Shakespeare. I can't remember ever having heard or read beef-witted.

    [edit] It's listed in Chambers 20th Century, 1972 edition
    beef-witted: dull or heavy in wits; stupid
    So is beef-brained: stupid

    Apart from the Chambers entry, I don't think I've ever come across it, so I still support the proposal that beef-witted be flagged as dated.
    #3AuthorSD3 (451227) 26 Apr 09, 12:49
    Comment
    I'm with everybody else so far. I've never came across "beef-witted" before. Now I'm curious - did Shakespeare coin this word himself, like he did other expressions, or was it common in his day?

    "Beef-witted" should be marked dated or even archaic to warn people against using this for DE->EN translations. However, that leaves no good alternative for this particular sense of the word schwerfällig, so I suggest something like "slow-witted" or "dense" as an additional entry to cover this meaning.

    Sorry, LEO does have schwerfällig/dull adj. I overlooked that entry. LEO offers 15(!) translations for schwerfällig.
    #4Authorwupper (354075) 26 Apr 09, 20:17
    Context/ examples
    DWDS:
    schwer - ...
    -fällig - nicht gewandt, unbeholfen, langsam, träge: s. Bewegungen, Schritte; ein s. Mensch; er geht sehr s., stand s. auf; der Dachs wird meist als träge und s. hingestellt; s. (umständlich) denken, antworten
    Comment
    But that entry is the only one with the marking (geistig) in italics. Is that sense by any chance also dated or uncommon in German, and if so, are the two perhaps a good pair?

    Otherwise there could be a whole range of choices, like dense (AE?), dull, dull-witted, dim, dim-witted, slow, slow-witted, slow on the uptake (AE?), thick-witted, thick (BE) ...

    'Bovine' was also kind of cute and could be taken in the geistig sense. (-:
    #5Authorhm -- us (236141) 26 Apr 09, 20:36
    Context/ examples
    schwer|fäl|lig Adj.: (in Bezug auf die körperliche od. geistige Beweglichkeit) langsam und umständlich, ohne Leichtigkeit...
    Quelle: Duden - Deutsches Universalwörterbuch
    Comment
    Hi, hm--us. IMHO schwerfällig can apply to either one(geistig, körperlich) or both, often as if the two were linked, but let the German native speakers comment on that definitively.

    Yeah, I chuckled over "bovine" too. Kind of gets the "beef" into the expression again.
    #6Authorwupper (354075) 26 Apr 09, 20:54
    Comment
    bovine alacrity of mind...

    could be a useful description.... now and then
    #7Authornoli (489500) 26 Apr 09, 23:33
    Context/ examples
    Managing Editor Jeanne Marie Tokunaga's job is equally complex. Mainly, she is the watchdog who keeps CDA from getting sued by some beef-witted subscriber who can't tell when I'm kidding.
    http://www.cda.org/library/cda_member/pubs/jo...

    Yet more absurd drivel from Brussels. Have they nothing better to do?
    The sooner we are rid of these beef-witted cronies the better.
    http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol/ar...


    3. Knight Rider.
    Hey, we love that old '80s show. However, NBC's beef-witted, critically drubbed new iteration failed to capture the fun of the original before it skidded off the air last month.
    http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20244433,00.html

    The songs, which writer Rob Harvilla said seemed culled from a concept album about eco-friendly cars, were "disturbingly beef-witted"
    http://www.countrymusicchannel.com.au/CMC/For...

    Comment
    I agree that "beef-witted" has to be flagged in some way to distinguish it from the better and far more common options for "schwerfällig" for the D->E direction. I'm not convinced that "dated" is appropriate, however. If you dig deep, "beef-witted" does seem to be used by people who aren't using it in the context of Shakespearean insults or who don't otherwise use dated expressions or use them deliberately to give a piece of writing an old-fashioned flavour.
    It's been quite hard to find actual recent usage as opposed to dictionary definitions, references to Shakespearean insults etc. on the Internet, so I would plead for "rare" rather than "dated".

    Incidentally, whatever tag is decided on, the same will apply to the beef-witted - schwer von Begriff pairing.
    #8AuthorAnne(gb) (236994) 27 Apr 09, 14:47
    Comment
    Thanks for doing more research, Anne. I chose "dated" based on the fact that it used to be in dictionaries but is now not listed. "Rare" would be a suitable tag.
    #9AuthorAmy-MiMi (236989) 27 Apr 09, 15:17
     
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