Milch|misch|ge|tränk, Milch|mix|ge|tränk, das: hauptsächlich aus Milch (1 a) bestehendes Mixgetränk.
© 2000 Dudenverlag

I like the example :-) but I think that adding "Milchshake" would be enough, as Milchmixgetränk is technically not wrong. "Milchshake" is only in Duden in an example sentence:

Sanddorn: ... ein Milchshake mit S.;

But here some examples from the mighty "Zeit":

"Zumindest hier fühlt sie sich bei einem Vanille-Milchshake unbeobachtet. " http://www.zeit.de/2006/21/china_xml?page=5

"bald gesellte er sich, in T-Shirt und kurzer Hose athletisch wirkend, mit einem Milchshake an die Bar. " http://www.zeit.de/2004/30/Hochstapler_30

Ergebnisse 1 - 8 von ungefähr 15 aus www.zeit.de für milchshake .
Es wurden keine mit Ihrer Suchanfrage - site:www.zeit.de milchmixgetränk - übereinstimmenden Dokumente gefunden.
Ergebnisse 1 - 1 von 1 aus www.zeit.de für milchmischgetränk

"Die Horchata de Chufa ist ein Milchmischgetränk aus Erdmandeln." http://www.zeit.de/zeit-wissen/magazin/extrab...

Ergebnisse 1 - 10 von ungefähr 27 aus www.welt.de für milchshake
(none at all for Milchmixgetränk/Milchmischgetränk)

LEO:
milkshake - das Milchmixgetränk
milk shake - das Milchmixgetränk

Google:
+milkshake - 4,950,000 (though some are the name of a band or song or something)
+"milk shake" - 1,010,000

Google News:
+milkshake - 595
+"milk shake" - 79

site:nytimes.com
+milkshake - 896
+"milk shake" - 141

site:washingtonpost.com
+milkshake - 351
+"milk shake" - 23

site:latimes.com
+milkshake - 105
+"milk shake" - 7

CABINET - A milkshake in Rhode Island.
FRAPPE - A milkshake in Boston.
http://travel2.nytimes.com/2006/03/17/travel/...

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(OT: Where's the field for Sources and Examples? Or has this section never had one and I've only just noticed?)

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I haven't checked how many spellings are currently in LEO, but for AE at least, I would have said the preferred modern spelling is 'milkshake' as one word, because it's pronounced as one word, not as two. 'Shake' is also fine alone and probably deserves an entry of its own. 'Milk shake' I would class as outdated or possibly BE. (Though actually I thought milkshakes were more an AE thing ...)

Oddly enough, though, both M-W and AHD still only list 'milk shake.' I think they're behind the curve on this one, but I'm not at home where I could see if NOAD at least, which is often the most up-to-date of the major AE dictionaries, would agree with me.

me1? Anyone?



Anyway, I support adding Milchshake, though I don't necessarily support deleting Milchmixgetränk if it's in Duden, and Duden actually lists -misch- first so it should probably be added too. And I suggest combining the two E spellings into one, and adding 'shake' as a separate entry.

I agree that milkshake is normally spelt as one word. The separate wording also struck me as odd.

..however, checking in my Cassel's Concise Dictionary (1997) I find it is only listed as "milk shake" (2 words.)

I definitely wouldn't conclude that milkshakes were a specifically US thing, hm. AFAIK, they have been around in NZ since the 50's at least, when (according to an acquaintance of my mother's) ordinary people lived in fear of the notorious "milk-bar cowboys." - Anyway, don't the Americans call a milkshake a "soda"?

Well, it's probably been decades since I had an ice-cream soda as opposed to a milkshake, but to the best of my recollection, it's thinner, runnier, not as frothily whipped. If you put a straw in it, it won't stand up straight the way a straw would in a good thick milkshake. In fact, an ice-cream soda might indeed be not unlike a thin British milkshake, which takes the word 'milk' much more literally IIRC.

There should be at least one discussion on this in the archive already, possibly under 'malt' or 'malted' or something, or maybe under one of the regional AE words for the same thing, like 'frappe.'

Maybe the 50's were the decade of milkshakes around the world, then. A wholesome treat for respectable young people. Bobby soxers, poodle skirts, ducktails, rock 'n' roll ... (-;

mudd 1,

in welch eigenartigen lokalen (mit so höflichen kellnern) gehst du deine milchmischgetränke verzehren ?
gibst du auch trinkgeld?

All these translations are misleading IMO. Usually what you get when you order a "Milchshake" in Germany is something with 1 part ice cream and 10 parts milk. If you want 2 scoops it costs extra. They're thin as water and often prepared with "H-Milch" to boot. Anyway the emphasis is clearly on the "milk" part. I have even had some so-called "Milchshakes" which had no ice cream in them at all, just some strange frothing powder. There doesn't seem to be anything remotely like an American milkshake in German restaurants, regardless of what it is called. One exception is(was?) a place in Berlin in the style of a 50's "Happy Days" type diner. Here they were passable.
Sorry to be so negative, but my milkshake-drinking experiences of 19 years living in Germany have been extremely frustrating. One of the things I inevitably end up doing while visiting in the States is to order at least one tall, extra thick, American-style milkshake. You know, the kind where the straw stands straight up by itself, even without the lid on! Or better yet, a malted. (@hm, those "malt" threads are are in LEO-Nirvana, or at least I coudn't locate them.)
I think the term is really untranslatable. A "Milchshake"(G) is just not the same thing as a "milkshake"(AE).

@ Mary
A milkshake and a soda are definitely not the same thing. Milkshakes are really filling and made with ice cream and milk (see wpr's description).
A soda is also made with ice cream - don't remember exactly - but I think flavoring can be added (like a couple of spoons of chocolate milk powder - Nestle's quick) and then is filled up with 7-up or sprite - much lighter than a milkshake

It's true, in BE a milkshake does not have to have any ice-cream in it either:

milkshake noun a drink consisting of a mixture of milk, flavouring and sometimes ice cream, whipped together until creamy. http://www.chambersharrap.co.uk/chambers/chre...

(and I can confirm that if you ask for a milkshake in GB that does not imply a drink made with ice-cream. Those are "thick milkshakes".)

But the same is true of US milkshakes, according to M-W, even if you are usually served a thick milkshake:
Main Entry: milk shake
Function: noun
: a thoroughly shaken or blended drink made of milk, a flavoring syrup, and often ice cream http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/milk shake

@Mary There is "soda" and "ice-cream sodas". "Soda" is what people on the East and West Coasts (basically) use for carbonated soft drinks. In the Midwest we call it "pop". In the olden days I think it was called "soda-pop" and the people serving it were the "soda jerks". This all applies to the USA.

@wpr: Well, okay, maybe it wasn't really on that topic, but it's been touched on in passing, e.g.,

  related discussion:real malts (Spezialisten für alkoholische Getränke gesucht - sind die denn schon wach?)

Maybe M-W was just trying to be concise without having to specify AE or BE, or maybe there's a tiny enclave of drinkers of runny milkshakes somewhere in the US or Canada. But in the vast majority of places in the US, if it didn't have ice cream and wasn't thick, it wouldn't be a milkshake, just some sort of flavored milk drink.

As I've said many times, M-W is not the most reliable guide to actual usage. For instance, they tend to say 'often capitalized' when they mean 'it's a proper noun' or 'capitalized 99.99% of the time.'

@RES, hm: What you're describing with "(ice cream) soda", is what we called "floats" in the Midwest. The best kind are root beer floats. Yummy.
@just hm: Your phrase "some sort of flavored milk drink." is almost word-for-word what I was going to suggest as translation for "Milchshake"(G.), but discarded it before I hit SEND.
@ Archfarchnad -gb-: so the Brits are just as hard up as the Germans here, eh? You have my sympathy. ;-)
Dictionaries don't help much here. What's needed are(is?) RECIPE BOOKS. It's the proportion that counts, not just the components.

Well, yes, okay, 'float' was the actually word I had in mind and then withdrew. <g> Not sure how if at all an ice-cream soda differs. But on the other hand, it normally is specifically a root-beer float; if you make it with Coke or something (but why would you) I don't think you'd necessarily call it a Coke float.

I think this is just one of those times where the recipe varies widely, but the name is still the same. It's pretty clear that the German word Milchshake is a translation of the English word 'milkshake,' whatever the exact ingredients, and that no better concise translation exists in either language. Cf. the fairly recent discussion on 'cheesecake.'

Thanks for the explanations re soda/ice-cream soda. I recall "soda" was used a lot in Archie comics and "Happy Days". (BTW, have you noticed that the 50's fashions seem to be coming back? Circular skirts with polka dots and petticoats, anyway. And young girls can be seen wearing strings of pearls - will milkshakes also make a comeback and replace the omnipresent "energy drinks"?)

In NZ, a milkshake is also just flavoured milk shaken up until frothy. If you want ice-cream in it, it costs extra and is called a "thickshake" (well, that could be the one with more than average ice-cream). But in any case, ice-cream is not automatically added.

Thanks hm, for the link to the discussion. I tried the wildcard "malt*" in the forum search box and did NOT get this thread - only a couple with the German "sie malt..." from "malen". Anyway, I do remember browsing through that thread in March and being amused by all the people who were off track thinking it had something to do with liquor.
BTW of course there is such things as coke floats. At least in the Midwest. But better are cherry coke floats. I can tell you are not a connoisseur of these things, hm ;-)
I agree this is just cultural. I know there are some Germans that object to the use of the word "beer" in English for US Budweiser, etc.

Monibar, ich gebe zu, das Beispiel war etwas überzeichnet, aber ich kann mir schon vorstellen, dass Kellner ihr Trinkgeld riskieren, indem sie einen /sehr/ komisch angucken, wenn man ein "Milchmischgetränk" bestellt. Ich zumindest würde jemanden sehr komisch angucken, wenn ich mit ihm zusammen ausgehe und er das tut. Mehr noch, wahrscheinlich wüsste ich auch nicht einmal, was er meint (naja, jetzt schon, aber nicht jeder liest Leo-Diskussionen). Denn "Milchmixgetränk" ist für mich alles, was aus Milch und irgendwas anderem besteht. Also auch Kakao zum Beispiel. Und somit ein sehr abstrakter Oberbegriff, der in der normalen Umgangssprache einfach nicht benutzt wird.

Selbst bei dem aus Zeitungsartikeln bestehenden Korpus von wortschatz.uni-leipzig.de hat Milchshake die (logarithmische) Häufigkeitsklasse 19, Milchmischgetränk 24 und Milchmixgetränk 22 ("der" ist 2^24-mal häufiger als "Milchmischgetränk").

Aber je mehr ich darüber nachdenke, desto sicherer werde ich mir, dass der Eintrag in Leo einfach deshalb schon unglücklich ist, weil "Milchmixgetränk" viel zu allgemein ist (was auch der Duden-Definition entspricht). Es kann ordinären Kakao meinen, Vanillemilch, Erdbeermilch, Milchshakes, die Longdrinkvariante des White Russian... Irgendwo ein Milchmischgetränk zu bestellen ist ungefähr so sinnvoll wie zu sagen "Ach Herr Ober, bringen Sie mir doch bitte ein Getränk, ja?" Gut, hoffentlich würde der Kellner dann einfach nachfragen, ob man da einen speziellen Wunsch hat, aber ein bisschen verarscht darf er sich schon vorkommen ;)


Wpr, technically speaking milkshakes in Germany are slightly thicker than milk, not thin as water but I can understand your frustration. If you want the barely drinkable type of shake you can always get one at McDonald's. For drinks I prefer the liquid state over the amorphous one though but perhaps that's a European thing as the milkshakes in France fit through a straw, too, just as those in Germany and apparently Britain do.

Oh, to pick up that off-topic piece of thread about beer: I know the sort of Germans you're talking about, wpr, objecting the use of the word "beer" for any brand they either don't like or think they shouldn't like, especially non-German ones (but often even brands which are not their special local beer). It's not the most mature behaviour but a very common one. I guess just saying "I prefer the beer I'm used to" wouldn't be macho enough or "connoisseur"-like or something so they have to put on some show with "horse piss" or "this is not beer" types of slogans. To ignore it would be a good idea.

Achtung, Satire:
Wo steht eigentlich geschrieben, daß ein 'Milchshake (G)' genauso zu schmecken hat wie ein 'milkshake (A)'?? warum höre ich dann keine Klagen darüber, daß es in Europa Budweiser (neben dem von Anheuser-Busch hergestellten, ähm, Getränk) gibt??! An den Vergleich von Schokolade CH / USA darf ich gar nicht denken ... Trotzdem macht das den Eintrag chocolate=Schokolade nicht ungültig/überflüssig ;-)))

nur noch ein kleines bißchen øl ins Feuer: http://beeradvocate.com/forum/read/751218

@mudd1 (bitte nicht 100% ernst nehmen)
>>technically speaking milkshakes in Germany are slightly thicker than milk, not thin as water...
Ich gebe zu, ich hab' übertrieben. ;-)
>>For drinks I prefer the liquid state over...
Das ist eben der Punkt. In den USA wird ein "milkshake" nicht unbedingt als Getränk angesehen. Er ist eher als kleiner Imbiss oder Nachtisch gedacht.
>>If you want the barely drinkable type of shake you can always get one at McDonald's...
Ich hab' es geahnt, dass dieser Ratschlag kommen würde. Die "milkshakes" bei diesem Unternehmen sind keineswegs typisch amerikanisch. Sie sind mehr oder weniger eine synthetische Nachahmung des echten Milkshakes und eine ziemlich Misslungene. Jeder weiss, dass die richtig guten "milkshakes" und "malteds" beim "diner" oder in der kleinen Eisdiele im Kiez zu haben sind. McDonald's kam erst später. Ich persönlich betrete seit langem keine Filiale von diesem Unternehmen. (nicht wegen der Milchshakes)
Wie hm schon angedeutet hat, ist Eis ein fester Bestandteil vom amerikanischen "milkshake". Sonst würde ich es nur als "shaken milk" bezeichnen, nicht "milkshake". Ich zitiere interessehalber im folgenden Beitrag die AHD Definition und Anmerkungen zu "milk shake". Viel Spaß.

1. A beverage made of milk, flavoring, and ice cream, shaken or whipped until foamy. Also called shake, Regional frappe, Regional velvet.

REGIONAL NOTE:To most Americans, a milk shake, that thick, sweet accompaniment to a hamburger and fries, naturally includes ice cream. But speakers in parts of New England make finer distinctions in their ice cream terminology. To a person living in Rhode Island or the adjoining part of Massachussetts, a milk shake consists of milk shaken up with flavored syrup and nothing more; if ice cream is included, the drink is called a cabinet, possibly, says food writer John F. Mariani in The Dictionary of American Food and Drink, named after the square wooden cabinet in which the mixer was encased. Farther north in New England, the same drink is called a velvet or a frappe (from French frapper, “to ice”).

Final note:
>>Denn "Milchmixgetränk" ist für mich alles, was aus Milch und irgendwas anderem besteht. Also auch Kakao zum Beispiel. Und somit ein sehr abstrakter Oberbegriff, der in der normalen Umgangssprache einfach nicht benutzt wird.

mudd1 has a valid point with Oberbegriff. I have never seen "Milchmixgetränk" on a German menu, in contrast to "Milchshake". So they're not really equivalent. Native speakers correct me if I'm wrong.

Ein literarischer Hinweis darf hier nicht fehlen, zumal er die ideale Synthese aus US-amerikanischer und deutscher Trinkkultur bietet: das Bier-Milchshake aus Cannery Row.

"(...) It took Doc longer to go places than other people. He didn't drive fast and he stopped and ate hamburgers very often...In Monterey before he even started, he felt hungry and stopped at Herman's for a hamburger and a beer. While he ate his sandwich and sipped his beer, a bit of conversation came back to him. Blaisedell, the poet, had said to him, "You love beer so much, I'll bet some day you'll go in and order a beer milk shake." It was a simple piece of foolery but it had bothered Doc ever since. He wondered what a beer milk shake would taste like. The idea gagged him but he couldn't let it alone. It cropped up every time he had a glass of beer. Would it curdle the milk? Would you add sugar? It was like a shrimp ice cream. Once the thing got into your head you couldn't forget it. He finished his sandwich and paid Herman. He purposely didn't look at the milk shake machines lined up so shiny against the back wall. If a man ordered a beer milk shake, he thought, he'd better do it in a town where he wasn't known. But then, a man with a beard, ordering a beer milk shake in a town where he wasn't known - they might call the police."

Und der Kreis schließt sich.

Wow, kann man Milchshakeologie schon studieren? ;) Aber warte mal, wenn Milchshakes (die amorphe Variante) zu Hamburger und Pommes gereicht werden, ist da dann auch noch was Flüssiges bei? Ich habe *einmal*, sobald das die Fastfoodkette, die du nicht mehr betrittst, wpr, durch eine Änderung ihrer Menüflexibilität möglich gemacht hatte, mein normales Getränk durch einen Milchshake ersetzt. Also halt so eine Art Softeis mit Strohhalm, um vorzugaukeln, man könne das trinken. Burger und Pommes sind mir noch nie so schwer durch den Hals gegangen, ich mach das *nie* *wieder*! Saft oder Cola oder zur Not Wasser, aber irgendwas muss dabei, sonst geht das gar nicht.

Aber wenn ich das nächste Mal in Hamburg bin, versuche ich einen dieser berühmten Milchshakes zu bekommen. Dann kann ich auch endlich mitreden ;)

Und zuletzt möchte ich mich ja eigentlich nicht erdreisten, am American Heritage Dictionary rumzunörgeln, aber "frapper" heißt nicht wirklich "to ice" auf Französisch. "Frapper" kann man für alle möglichen Formen von "schlagen" nehmen (klopfen, hämmern, klatschen...), aber dadurch wird etwas höchstens wärmer. Es gibt allerdings laut der französischen Variante von Leo ein "frapper à froid", das dort mit "kalthämmern" übersetzt ist. Was auch immer dieses deutsche Wort bedeutet...

Oh und ich sehe grade Johns Beitrag: BAH! Altbierbowle, ok. Schlammbowle, ok. Aber ein Biermilchshake? Ich meine es gab wohl mal Biereis, das würde sich ja optimal eignen. Aber ich will weit weg sein, wenn das jemand probiert ;)