to fabricate, to make up, to invent ...

... will simply come up with a different ...

"to come up with s.th." passt nicht.

"to cook s.th. up" kann ich noch bieten.

@Rhabarber: are you serious? As a non-native English speaker, you're going to tell me ( native AE speaker) that my suggestion is wrong? That's pretty ballsy!

Sorry to interrupt the query, but the original should better have read:

'Es ist kaum vorstellbar, dass das BKA, falls es nicht findet was es sucht, sich einfach eine andere Anklage aus den Fingern saugt.' . . .

Oder, w?. . .

@sammy: are you serious? As a non-native German speaker, you're going to tell me (native German speaker) that I misunderstood the source text? That's pretty ballsy!

@Rhabarber: Where did I say you were wrong or you misunderstood? Please show me. I merely offered an alternative in #2. You, on the other hand, claimed I was wrong (#3).

~7: "sich etwas aus den Fingern saugen" bedeutet eindeutig, "sich eine Lügengeschichte ausdenken". "To come up with s.th. different" kann, muss aber nicht diese Bedeutung haben. Bei dieser Formulierung wäre es auch denkbar, dass der Ankläger sich auf einen anderen, durchaus begründeten Punkt aus dem ellenlangen Sündenregister der fraglichen Person stützt. Deshalb passt "to come up with s.th. different" meiner Meinung nach hier nicht.

That's your opinion, fine. I, on the other hand, find nothing wrong with it. If, for instance, someone is telling me a lie and I am aware of it, I can then respond to that person's lie with something like "no, you're gonna have to come up with something different/a different lie." It means exactly that.

And you still haven't shown me where I said you were wrong or misunderstood.

http://www.chambersharrap.co.uk/chambers/feat...

come up with something
to offer it; to put it forward • come up with an idea.

In my humble opinion, as a native speaker of English - not that that's a guarantee of perfection *g* - "to come up with" does not, in and of itself, incorporate the element of offering a lie. Chambers (see above) seems to agree. The suggestions in #1 and #3, on the other hand, do.
(Hope I'm not being too ballsy!)

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/com...

come up with : to produce especially in dealing with a problem or challenge
"came up with a solution"

Quickly adding another source, just in case anyone wants to get into the tiresome AE/BE thing. ;-)

"sich etwas aus den Fingern saugen" is, IMHO, more akin to "to reach for straws." But I don't think anyone would say that in this context (or too many others), and "to cook something up" does not have the same connotation as "sich etwas aus den Fingern saugen." Again, MHO. Both the German original sentence and "to reach for straws" convey a sense of desperation, which "to cook sth. up" does not. The latter, in fact, implies something pre-planned that the German phrase is lacking.

Again all of this is MHO.

In Deinem Beispielsatz würde ich "to come up with" aber nicht mit "aus den Fingern saugen", sondern mit "ausdenken" übersetzen. Das ist nicht das Gleiche.

Statt Dich über meine Kritik an Deinem Vorschlag zu empören, hättest Du ja auch die Bedeutungen meiner Vorschläge mit den möglichen Übersetzungen Deines Vorschlages vergleichen können. Dann wäre Dir sicher aufgefallen, dass wir den Satz unterschiedlich aufgefasst haben.
In solchen Fällen gehe ich immer davon aus, dass der Ausgangstext-Muttersprachler den Text richtig verstanden hat, auch wenn sein Übersetzungsvorschlag vielleicht nicht der eleganteste ist.

sich etwas aus den Fingern saugen: einen Sachverhalt frei erfinden

Duden Deutsches Universalwörterbuch, Mannheim-Leipzig-Wien-Zürich, 1989

Can't find much support for your suggestion, sammy.

BTW none of the above is my opinion.

@ SD3: Ist ja ulkig, ich habe im WB nach Finger+saugen gesucht, ohne das n am Finger, und nichts gefunden. So kann's gehen: Ein unscheinbares kleines n hätte uns diese Diskussion erspart ...

http://www.usingenglish.com/reference/phrasal...
Come up with - Think of a solution, excuse, etc.

http://esl.about.com/library/glossary/bldef_2...
come up with
Definition: find a solution; provide a new idea or answer
Explanation: Often used when asking someone else to provide a solution to a specific problem.

@Rhabarber: The only reason I was "empört," as you say, was because "to come up with something" is still a viable idea as it means "to think of" (aside from what SD3 says it means). Your blatant claim that it was simply wrong irked me, I admit, because I didn't feel that way. Nowhere did I say your suggestions were wrong, however, so you getting upset at me and claiming I said you were wrong, etc., offended me. Big deal, though. I erally couldn't care less about what suggestion the querist takes, because in the end, it's really just splitting hairs.

And now I'm out of here anyway, so y'all can split hairs among yourselves.

sammy: Lighten up!
You have, as far as I can tell, provided no evidence to support your suggested translation. I, unlike you, provided several sources that, as it turned out, did not support your view. I did not make them up. Ich habe sie mir auch nicht aus den Fingern gesaugt. I did not set out to dispute your view - it's just where the data took me.

Ich habe nicht behauptet, Dein Vorschlag sei falsches Englisch, sondern dass er nicht passt - und er passt nun mal in diesem Satz nicht.
 
Was Du als Haarspalterei bezeichnst, macht oft den Unterschied zwischen einer richtigen und einer fast richtigen Übersetzung aus. Und im Zweifelsfalle ist es mir wichtiger, dass w eine vernünftige Antwort auf seine Frage bekommt, als auf die Eitelkeiten von "Helfern" Rücksicht zu nehmen.

@ Rhabarber

Phrasal Verb:
trump up
To devise fraudulently: trumped up a charge of conspiracy

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/trump

s.o.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/trump%20up

Das scheint zu passen, aber ehrlich gesagt kenne ich die Redewendung nicht.

We have in English "to suck something out of one's thumb." For example,

"Es ist kaum vorstellbar, dass das BKA, falls es nichts findet was es sucht, sich einfach eine andere Anklage aus den Fingern saugt.`

"It is scarcely conceivable that BKA, if it does not find what it is looking for, would simply suck another charge out of its thumb."

This might be the closest we can come to the original.

In this particular sentence, it would not be out of place to translate

"It is hardly conceivable that BKA, if it does not find what it is looking for, would simply come up with another accusation."

But of course, a host of other, already suggested translations will work well also:

". . . would simply trump up another . . . ."
". . . think up another . . . ."

"fabricate, invent, make up, cook up another. . . ."

etc.

#12 (sammy) said: "sich etwas aus den Fingern saugen" is, IMHO, more akin to "to reach for straws."

IM(a native German speaker's)HO it's not.

#12 (sammy) said: Both the German original sentence and "to reach for straws" convey a sense of desperation, which "to cook sth. up" does not. The latter, in fact, implies something pre-planned that the German phrase is lacking.

"sich etwas aus den Fingern saugen" doesn't convey any sense of desparation (Neither does it convey the contrary).

As for the pre-planning: You might have planned to lie, but not what the lie will be. ("Ich werde mir einfach irgendwas aus den Fingern saugen. Mir wird schon etwas einfallen".) The metaphor refers to the contents of the lie.

@ Bob C.: ... would simply come up with another accusation."

Ich denke, aus dieser Formulierung geht nicht eindeutig hervor, ob die erhobenen Anschuldigungen berechtigt oder unberechtigt sind, ob der Staatsanwalt sich also einfach auf einen anderen Punkt im Sündenregister konzentriert, oder der Person etwas "anhängt".
Sammys und SD3s Meinung kennen wir jetzt; wie siehst Du das?

Bob C. (#21) suggested this.

That sounds perfect, doesn't it?

The decisive point is that it means something that is made up pretty spontaneously. "to suck something out of one's thumb" seems to convey that. But this may only seem so to me because it's a nearly literal translation of the German figure of speech.

@Bob C. (and other native English speakers): What do you think?

Rhabarber, im Moment kann ich Deiner Frage leider nicht die gebuehrende Aufmerksamkeit widmen. Vielleicht in ein Paar Stunden.

Fluechtig: Ich denke, evtl. "suck out of one's thumb" waere am geeignetsten--wuerde aber gerne von Deutschmuttersprachler hoeren.

Sicher ist "come up with" milder als "aus den Fingern saugen," nicht?

w will am liebsten sein "to trump up" in den Satz einbauen. Wenn das passt, ist wenigstens einer rundum glücklich.

Ansonsten geht es nur noch interessehalber darum, ob "to come up" eindeutig genug ist, um dieses "sich aus den Fingern saugen" wiederzugeben, oder ob die Satzaussage dadurch verfälscht wird. Hat aber keine Eile. :-)

To suck something out of one's thumb? Is that a regional term or a specialist term (law and order professionals, perhaps)? I'm not familiar with it.

To trump up is also a possibility.
http://www.oup.com/oald-bin/web_getald7index1a.pl
trump sth up
to make up a false story about sb/sth, especially accusing them of doing sth wrong: She was arrested on a trumped-up charge.

I'm not familiar with Bob's phrase, either, but that doesn't mean much. "To trump something up" would definitely work and is actually the best choice here, I think. The other suggestions (fabricate, make up, invent) are okay, too, and I don't know why everyone has a problem with "to come up with." One can come up with all kinds of ideas, fabrications, lies and deceitful schemes, so I think it would fit, too, as would "to cook up."

Here's my line of reasoning concerning "to come up with":

Yes, of course, you can "come up with" a lie, etc. The original sentence refers, however, to an Anklage. An Anklage is not, at least by definition, a lie, so the element of dishonesty has to be expressed through some other part of the sentence - the verb, an additional adjective, etc. The verb "to come up with" by itself does not contain the meaning of dishonesty. That's why "to come up with another charge/indictment" is in my opinion not adequate in this case.

Now, if someone can convince me that my Duden is wrong about "sich aus den Fingern saugen", I'd obviously be willing to reconsider.

It's all a matter of phrasing, IMO. Pne could say, for instance, It's hard to imagine that the BKA, if it can;t find what it's looking for, would simply come up with some other charge/indictment.

If you use any of the other suggestions here,i.e. "trump/cook up another charge/indictment," it would imply (to me) that the earlier charge(s) was/were equally trumped up/fabricated/etc., but that's not the sense that I get from the original sentence.

@ dude: In diesem Satz It's hard to imagine that the BKA, if it can;t find what it's looking for, would simply come up with some other charge/indictment. würde ich to come up with am ehesten mit aus dem Ärmel zaubern übersetzen.

Das legt zwar auch nahe, dass es beim BKA - wenn der Satz nicht verneint wäre - nicht ganz sauber zuginge, aber es ist nicht das Gleiche wie aus den Fingern saugen = erfinden.

I googled

"suck it out of your thumb," "suck it out of his," "her," "their," and "one's" thumb. There are a few, but unfortunately, only a very few occurrences for each. Yet those few show that at least the phrase does exist. I was unable to find it in the OED.

I would say it suggests that the thumb sucker is not only inventing something but is also a bit immature. Demnach duerfte es nicht also doch nicht am geeignetsten sein.

Eine moegliche Definition in Deutsch waere "sich etwas ausdenken (z.B. eine Ausrede)." Ganz allgemein scheint es in Englisch "to make something up" zu bedeuten.

"To trump up" scheint hier passend, insofern es sich um eine Anklage handelt, denn fest steht, das "charges" trumped up werden koennen.

OK, if you use "some other" it's more suggestive of dishonesty, I agree, but it's surely much more subtle than the German, isn't it?

Your second point is, I think, arguable either way. If you use "another" I think you're probably right - it's a second trumped-up charge. With "a different" (cook up a different charge), it seems to me the first is honest, the second is not.

So yes, phrasing is important.

sammy, no wonder the whole world hates Americans. Arrogant prick.

Don't know whom this Habs guy is talking about, but that #34 is uncalled for.

(Is #34 calculated to make the whole world love Germans?)

SD3 wrote:

>>To suck something out of one's thumb? Is that a regional term or a specialist term (law and order professionals, perhaps)? I'm not familiar with it.

I've never heard of it either, and if three of us haven't, that does actually mean something. And not being in the OED at all also means something. I really wouldn't recommend using an obscure saying.

My problem with 'trump up' is that, to my ears, it's really only idiomatic with the word 'charge(s),' as a fixed phrase or collocation. In other contexts (like this one) it seems out of place.

And as far as the rest goes, can't we all just get along? Peace on earth, goodwill to all, and all that. Let's cut each other some slack for Christmas. (-:

My comment was aimed at sammy's numerous rants at anyone and everyone who'd dare to question his, usually incorrect, postings. Whatever he/she says is gospel and I'm sick and tired of it. BTW, "Bob guy" - why would I care if the whole world loves Germans? You claim to be in Toronto but don't know who the Habs are??? Gimme a break...

Hey Habs, calm down, will ya? Not everyone in Toronto - or Canada - is a hockey fan, you know?

Besides, Bob's an American who happens to live in Toronto, not a Canadian, and you (should) know how few Americans are into hockey.

yeah, guess I overreacted...it's just that sammy fellow really seems to rub me the wrong way, he's always so aggressive and quite abrasive. Shouldn't have lashed out like this, though...

We all get irritated from time to time; I'm no exception. And -- like many others here -- I've said things I later wished I could take back.

sammy and dude have good track records here.