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  • Wrong entry

    verbiage - Blabla etc.

    Correction

    verbiage should be tagged BE

    -

    Blabla


    Comment
    “Verbiage” needs to be tagged “BE”.

    verbiage
    See definition in Oxford Advanced Learner's Dictionary
    Line breaks: ver¦bi|age
    Pronunciation: /ˈvəːbɪɪdʒ/
    Definition of verbiage in English:
    noun
    [mass noun]
    1Excessively lengthy or technical speech or writing: the basic idea here, despite all the verbiage, is simplethere is plenty of irrelevant verbiage
    More example sentences
    •Corruption and tyranny both hide in irrelevant public verbiage.
    •Dwarfed by the scope of the bill's radical changes, this bit of verbiage flew under the public's radar screen.
    •Smiley says her first letters to the Times were edited heavily, with excess verbiage getting the knife.
    •Get more examples
    Synonyms
    verbosity, verboseness, padding, wordiness, prolixity, prolixness, superfluity, redundancy, long-windedness, lengthiness, protractedness, discursiveness, expansiveness, digressiveness, convolution, circumlocution, circuitousness, rambling, wandering, meandering
    British informal waffle, waffling, wittering, flannel
    rare logorrhoea
    View synonyms


    2 US The way in which something is expressed; wording or diction:

    "we need to look at how the rule should be applied, based on the verbiage"

    MACMILLAN online:

    verbiage - definition
    NOUN [UNCOUNTABLE] FORMAL /ˈvɜː(r)biɪdʒ/
    written or spoken language that is long, boring, and unnecessary

    From UK sites:
    “There's far too much verbiage, both in the questions and answers at present. And that, surely, is something on which Mr Fergusson can act.”
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/personal-v...
    “Too much verbiage already on potential Super Dooper Tuesday outcomes: if you have limited time…”
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/justi...

    and as it seems to be synonymous with "wording" in AE that needs to be covered related discussion: ... mit der Muttermilch aufgesogen ...
    Authormikefm (760309) 23 May 15, 21:53
    Comment
    I think, what you actually mean to suggest is not tagging the existing entries BE, but adding a new meaning of verbiage with a US tag corresponding to Dictionary: wording , isn't it?
    #1AuthorRodos (930149) 24 May 15, 00:09
    Comment
    Marking it as BE not supported (except perhaps as to waffling.)

    As far as I'm concerned, in AE verbiage means writing that uses too many words or excessively technical expressions, maybe overabundance or superfluity of words; wordiness; verbosity.

    For the "wording" of the text of a particular piece of (legal or official) writing, we often say language. For example, today's NYT reports on the final language of a complicated proposed rule regulating clean water. [Hint: no one doubts that it is written in a legal version of English.] In this case, complaints are really about the way it is written but rather about the content or about federalism problems.

    #2AuthorJurist (US) (804041) 25 May 15, 10:20
    Comment
    #2 - the point is that “verbiage” in BE only means “writing that uses too many words, verbosity etc.
    This thread indicates that in AE it can also mean “wording” – a neutral term. related discussion: ... mit der Muttermilch aufgesogen ... see (#9 e.g.).

    This should be indicated in the Leo dictionary entry IMO; Dictionary: verbiage

    #3Authormikefm (760309) 25 May 15, 10:41
    Comment
    My point is that I don't agree that AE really accepts verbiage as meaning neutral "wording".
    #4AuthorJurist (US) (804041) 25 May 15, 10:44
    Comment
    The AE speakers will have to hammer that out amongst themselves then - and have a word in the ear of Oxford dictionaries. ;-)
    #5Authormikefm (760309) 25 May 15, 10:47
    Comment
    Except for that reference to Oxford online, I don't find much support for the suggestion and none that is justified.
    #6AuthorJurist (US) (804041) 25 May 15, 10:51
    Comment
    So maybe mikestorer is almost alone in thinking it is also used to simply mean "wording" in AE (the Muttermilch thread)?
    #7Authormikefm (760309) 25 May 15, 10:57
    Comment
    @mikestorer here.

    #7, as an AE speaker, I think there's been a slight miscommunication here. I do believe verbiage refers to wording, but I also agree that it connotes too much, contrived or convoluted wording. In other words, I believe it does carry a negative flavor as opposed to wording, which remains completely neutral.
    If I seemed to imply that verbiage's meaning was usually neutral in A.E., I apologize.
    I think I happened to list it among some examples of English words of Germanic origin that have Latin/French-based equivalents in English. It's often the case that these pairs have diverging connotations.
    In short, I don't believe a revision by LEO is called for.
    #8AuthormikeS (366927) 26 May 15, 16:46
    Comment
    Re AE:

    It is entirely proper to use the word "verbiage" in a neutral way. It does not necessarily mean an excess of words, and it does not necessarily suggest anything negative.

    To that extent, I disagree with ## 2, 4, 6, & 8.
    #9AuthorHappyWarrior (964133) 22 Feb 16, 18:04
    Comment
    OT re #1: I think, what you actually mean ... isn't it?

    >> I think what you ... don't you?

    ?
    #10AuthorKinkyAfro (587241) 22 Feb 16, 18:24
    Context/ examples
    https://www.ahdictionary.com/word/search.html...
    ver·bi·age
    n.
    1. An excess of words for the purpose; wordiness.
    2. The manner in which something is expressed in words:software verbiage
    Comment
    Non-native AE speaker here.

    As far as I am aware, the original meaning of "verbiage" refers to an excess of words, and language purists will still only allow this sense of the word.

    However, in recent years (over the last two decades, maybe?) "verbiage" has acquired the additional neutral meaning of "language" or "text" (in AE, I know nothing about BE in this regard). While this probably originally arose out of people's misunderstanding of what "verbiage" meant, the new sense seems to be here to stay.
    #11AuthorNorbert Juffa (236158) 22 Feb 16, 18:29
    Comment
    Re #11.

    Norbert, I don't know what the "original" meaning of verbiage was, but from personal experience I can attest that "verbiage" has been used, in its neutral meaning, for far longer than just the last two decades.


    #12AuthorHappyWarrior (964133) 22 Feb 16, 18:38
    Comment
    That is entirely possible, I have only been living here (US) for 23 years, so anything language related that happened before that is beyond my event horizon. If the neutral meaning has been around much longer, why is it that purists still object to it today? I know, you would be the wrong person to ask :-)
    #13AuthorNorbert Juffa (236158) 22 Feb 16, 18:42
    Comment
    'Verbiage' does seem (on occasion) to be used in a neutral sense by universities -

     Required Verbiage for Sublicensing Advertisements
    Each student license holder wishing to advertise a sublicense opportunity should post a listing through the Student Housing Sublicense Database.  However, it is fine to advertise by other means as long as the following verbiage is included in each posting: ...

    E-Verify Offer Letter Verbiage
    This page provides policy verbiage and instructions, which you can copy and include in employment offer letters. ...
    #14AuthorHecuba - UK (250280) 22 Feb 16, 18:50
    Comment
    I'm surprised to see that any native user of AE thinks that "verbiage" should be considered a negative word. That viewpoint is new to me.

    I'm talking about the word itself, of course. Certainly one can add qualifiers that make it negative (e.g., "The contract contains some useless / inappropriate / unfair verbiage"), but in such cases it's the qualifiers that convey the sense of negativity. The inherent meaning of "verbiage" is not negative, IMO.
    #15AuthorHappyWarrior (964133) 22 Feb 16, 18:56
    Context/ examples
    OED2:
    verbiage [...]
    1. Wording of a superabundant or superfluous character, abundance of words without necessity or without much meaning; excessive wordiness.
    a 1721 PRIOR Dial. Locke & Montaigne 275 Without ... being guided by any sort of Verbiage like this
    1738 WARBURTON Div. Legat. I. 69 The Matter, when ... cleared from the Perplexity of this abounding Verbiage, lies open to this easy Answer. [...]
    2. Diction, wording, verbal expression.
    1804 WELLINGTON in Gurw. Desp. (1835) III. 193 All that is nothing; the previous verbiage [of the treaty] is thought to sufficient to bind us. [...]
    Comment
    I dug out the relevant volume of my paper copy of the OED2 and found that the sense "wording" of verbiage has been around for two hundred years.

    However, personally I do not recall this sense being in frequent use until the 2000s, but that may very well be because I wasn't paying attention to the usage of "verbiage" prior to reading a note (on a blog or Q&A site probably) from someone who objected to the use of the word in this sense, and insisted it should only be used to refer to wordiness.
    #16AuthorNorbert Juffa (236158) 22 Feb 16, 22:02
    Comment
    Thanks, Norbert. That's a long time.
    #17AuthorHappyWarrior (964133) 23 Feb 16, 00:09
     
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