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  • Source Language Term

    Frau

    Correct?

    Mrs.

    Comment
    Here's the context. I am translating a novel from German into English. There is a character who is an elderly woman, a widow and that we know was married previously.

    Do I keep 'Frau XYZ' or use 'Mrs. XYZ' in the English? What are the pros and cons of keeping 'Frau' versus using 'Mrs.'?

    I am leaning towards using 'Mrs.'. Frau is not an English word. There is no need to use the word to indicate that this particular character is German, while some others are not, since all the characters are German in the novel. I guess 'Frau' reminds the reader that the story takes place in a German speaking country. But I don't think the reader will forget that and I'm not sure whether this fact is really essential to this novel.

    What have other translators of German novels into English typically done? I am cannot recall any particular examples?
    AuthorBrettUSA (718859) 18 Nov 15, 14:39
    Ergebnisse aus dem Wörterbuch
    Mrs (Brit.)   - title of respect prefixed to the name of a married womanFrau  pl.: die Frauen [abbr.: Fr.]   - verheiratet
    wifeless  adj.ohne Frau
    women's  adj.Frauen...
    to abandon one's wife  | abandoned, abandoned |seine Frau verlassen  | verließ, verlassen |
    in drag   - usually of a man [coll.]als Frau verkleidet   - Mann
    Mother Hulda (or: Holle)Frau Holle   [Fairy Tales]
    a well-adjusted womaneine ausgeglichene Frau
    Comment
    I would use the English forms throughout, except if a character in the novel makes a point by addressing another person with a foreign-language title.
    #1Authormbshu (874725) 18 Nov 15, 14:43
    Comment
    @ 1

    Is this standard practice when translating novels? I just looked at the Blechtrommel in the English transaltion and they use "Herr" instead of "Mr." I know that is an old translation.

    I would like to use "Mrs." but I don't wish to do so it this is non-standard in the novel translation world. I would not be so against using "Frau"
    #2AuthorBrettUSA (718859) 18 Nov 15, 15:50
    Comment
    In newspapers at least the practice is rather old-fashioned.
    #3Authormbshu (874725) 18 Nov 15, 15:58
    Comment
    Interessante Frage, Brett. Ich übersetze als DMS Bücher in die andere Richtung, also vom Englischen ins Deutsche. Da bleiben Anreden wie Mrs., Mr., Ms. immer im deutschen Text stehen.

    (Übrigens tendieren einige Verlage seit einiger Zeit dazu, den Punkt wegzulassen, also Mrs, Mr, etc.)

    Eine Freundin und Kollegin (zweisprachig aufgewachsen) hat vor Kurzem einen Krimi vom Deutschen ins Englische übersetzt und dabei die Anrede "Frau" im engl. Text übernommen - ich kann aber nicht sagen, ob das "standard practice" ist.

    Ich würde an deiner Stelle diesbezüglich deinen Auftraggeber (Verlag?) fragen, wie es gewünscht wird. Oft gibt es auch verlagsinterne Vorlieben. (Wie zum Beispiel den Punkt hinter "Mrs."). Dann bist du auf der sicheren Seite und musst nicht anschließend alles wieder umändern! :)

    #4AuthorFragezeichen (240970) 18 Nov 15, 16:05
    Comment
    Als Helmut Kohl noch regierte, wurde er in britischen Zeitungen oft als "Herr Kohl" bezeichnet.
    #5AuthorMiMo (236780) 18 Nov 15, 16:40
    Comment
    Isn't the question of how far you wish to depart from the source a fundamental one faced by all translators of fiction?

    And is there such thing as a standard practice? Surely it is up to the translator to decide what he wants to do.
    #6AuthorRTH01 (932829) 18 Nov 15, 17:07
    Comment
    Ich muss gestehen, dass ich schon seit Jahrzehnten keine Übersetzung mehr gelesen habe, kann mir aber nicht vorstellen, dass in einer deutschen ÜB "Und das ist Herr Bond, von dem Sie sicher gehört haben" stehen würde. Im Deutschen ist es schon Standard, englische Titel beizubehalten (wie Fragezeichen ja auch sagt).

    Im Englischen würde es mich aber extrem stören, und im einzigen Beispiel, das mir einfällt - "Miss Smilla's Feeling for Snow" - hieß sie eben nicht 'fru' oder was immer. Ich würde "Mrs. Kleinfeld-Schmidt" schreiben, aus den im OP genannten Gründen. Sonst reißt es den Leser jedesmal aus dem Lesefluss.
    #7AuthorGibson (418762) 18 Nov 15, 17:16
    Comment
    Interesting point. My impression -- which I haven't taken the trouble to confirm -- is that "Herr" and "Frau" and "Fräulein" in German novels are generally kept as such in English translations. But you raise a good point: why should this be the case? It strikes me -- now that I think about it -- as an old-fashioned tradition that has no practical justification. If I were in your shoes, and had a free choice between "Frau" and "Mrs.", I think I would go with "Mrs."

    BUT - I can think of a counter-argument. In Germany people are much more likely to use "Frau" where we (in the US) would use a first name. When I talk about an elderly neighbor, I refer to her as "Betty", whereas in Germany I would probably refer to her as "Frau Schmidt". If I were to call her "Mrs. Schmidt" in America, it would imply a certain degree of distance or of heightened respect. If you want to avoid giving that impression in your translation, you might want to keep the address "Frau".
    #8AuthorMartin--cal (272273) 18 Nov 15, 17:43
    Comment
    In der englischen Übersetzung von "Heidi" (in Projekt Gutenberg, Übersetzer nicht angegeben; vermutlich Nathan Haskell Dole, 1899) begegnen uns z.B. "Herr Sesemann" und "Fraulein Rottenmeier".
    #9AuthorMiMo (236780) 18 Nov 15, 21:50
    Comment
    #4
    (Übrigens tendieren einige Verlage seit einiger Zeit dazu, den Punkt wegzulassen, also Mrs, Mr, etc.)

    As far as I know, that is a BE/AE difference: BE=Mrs AE=Mrs.
    Or have you come across US publishers that have dropped the period?

    slightly OT: I opened this thread because the use of Mrs. for Frau was a problem for me in a book I read last year. The book was written in German but set in the US and every woman over the age of 18 was Mrs. So-and-so. It struck me as rather odd because in almost all cases the woman in question was not married. Would it appear to a GNS though as totally normal?
    #10Authorpatman2 (527865) 18 Nov 15, 23:33
    Comment
    every woman over the age of 18 was Mrs. So-and-so. It struck me as rather odd because in almost all cases the woman in question was not married. Would it appear to a GNS though as totally normal? - Ja ... die Bezeichnung "Fräulein" für eine unverheiratete Frau ist inzwischen veraltet ... und wird allenfalls noch ironisch oder für junge Mädchen verwendet ...
    #11Authorno me bré (700807) 18 Nov 15, 23:36
    Comment
    #11
    So even though Mrs. is not used that way in English, you would consider it a normal Anrede for an unmarried woman in the US? Really? Wouldn't you expect Ms. instead?.
    #12Authorpatman2 (527865) 18 Nov 15, 23:41
    Comment
    I don't know where 'Fräulein' comes into it, but I think 'Ms' is still too new to have made it into the average German's mind. Not all, but quite a few of my students have never heard of 'Ms' (and initially think it's an abbreviation for 'Miss').
    #13AuthorGibson (418762) 18 Nov 15, 23:46
    Comment
    Oh, ich dachte, es geht Dir um Anreden bzw. Bezeichnungen in deutschsprachigen Ländern ... weil Du gezielt nach GNS gefragt hattest ...
    #14Authorno me bré (700807) 18 Nov 15, 23:53
    Comment
    Nein, es geht darum, ob wir 'Mrs' in einem amerikanischen Buch (von einem Deutschen geschrieben) normal finden, obwohl es in den USA anders verwendet wird.
    #15AuthorGibson (418762) 18 Nov 15, 23:57
    Comment
    @0: What have other translators of German novels into English typically done?
    One recent example is The Reader, the English translation of the book Der Vorleser, in which the title Frau is retained throughout: the main female character is always Frau Schmitz.

    As a side note, though, there is a strange deviation from this approach when it comes to the sentence:
    "Meine Schwester, die Germanistik studierte, berichtete beim Essen von dem Streit, ob Herr von Goethe und Frau von Stein eine Liebesbeziehung hatten".

    In the English translation:
    "My sister, who was studying German literature, delivered a report at the dinner table about the controversy as to whether Mr. von Goethe and Madame von Stein had had a relationship."

    It remains a mystery to me why Herr von Goethe became Mr. von Goethe and Frau von Stein on the other hand became Madame von Stein.


    @15 - Yes, you've stated the question correctly. There may not be an answer that applies to all GNS, but what would you think when reading (in a German book set in the US) that "Mrs. Jones" is used for an 18 year old unmarried first-year university student? Strange? Normal? What about your students?

    #16Authorpatman2 (527865) 19 Nov 15, 01:50
    Comment
    #10:
    Zu Mrs. / Mr. mit oder ohne Punkt:
    Ich meinte damit deutsche Verlage. Unabhängig davon, ob das Original BE oder AE ist, gibt es unterschiedliche "Regeln" für uns Übersetzer, wie wir im deutschen Text (wo die Anrede immer beibehalten und nicht mit "Frau" oder "Mann" übersetzt wird) schreiben sollen.

    Diese Anweisungen sind von Verlag zu Verlag unterschiedlich.

    #17AuthorFragezeichen (240970) 19 Nov 15, 14:35
    Comment
    re #16: Ich persönlich würde 'Mrs' in der beschriebenen Situation als störend/falsch empfinden.
    #18AuthorGibson (418762) 19 Nov 15, 14:51
     
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